I guess some people like to have dictators and some people don't. It is
everybodies choice under which condition she/he want's to work.
> >If you properly understand this organizational structure (and no, oudeis
> >is _not_ missing an organizational structure - it is organized as
> >described above).
> This is ok as long as you are just discussing ideas. It does not
> work if it is a project !
> One topic of a project is that it has a goal. Any organizational structure
> has to finalize the ideas.
In the mid 60ies, in Britain, a new form of theater came up, called
alternative, experimental or fringe theater. It's functioning was based
on collective work.
example: living theater
> I know Gernots and Monikas ideas about Oudeis these are the initiators
> for me. I cannot discuss a project with the whole internet...
than you don't know my ideas about oudeis. I appreciate personal
views on this project, but I would suggest that your's is too narrow.
> I am sure that Gernot and Monika WANT a project with a concept and not just
> internet and coffehouse discussions.
One of the places literates and theater groups use to there work since
the first quater of the centuries are the famous austrian/vienniese cafes.
;)
> Do you wonder about that ? Do you want decision ???
> If you see decisions as dictatorship you will never get decisions...
Concrete results following abstract proposals (or even preceeding them)
are decisions. You are welcome to join lee (who wrote suggestions for 3 !
scenes AND a whole introductory piece) as well as santiago (who composed
already half or so of the music and came up with examples for the
screendesign)
> >Oudeis until now remains in a state of continuous development, > I dont
see development. Development means progress means making decisions.
hm, maybe you are not involved enough to see developments? sometimes they
are minor, but people involved see and _feel_ them (yes art is a lot about
FEELING). sometimes they are huge and are performed in front of 2000
people or in front of 20 people in a great environment
> Just one aspect: There has been some
discussion about synchronous/asynchronous > broadcast and webness. Somebody has
to decide what is want ! > You cannot make an asynchronous/synchronous
broadcast interactive whatever > Oudeis.... There are a set of
possibilities which influence very much > the character and the necessary
resources of the project !
A VERY good example. There has been some discussion between you and me
and net.lab and there has been some decisions between us! (actually I
never really questioned it)
You have the ability to NOT accept decisions if they do not go along with
your initial concern.
> So don't blame me to be too much on technology !
Nobody blames anybody here :) That is because we have all freely chosen
to join this list, to discuss to assemble ideas. This is a free ground
for everybody.
> Great. Where is the art ???? The text of Odysseus ? The MOO ?
> The discussion in the internet ? > Who needs art anyway ? Wouldnt it be
more interesting to go beyond art ?
Art is (among other aspects) a social thing. Art exists because the human
race was ready for it. Art brings people together and unifies them under
a common mission.
Some people do not need "art" they watch football, or soap operas - both
of the socially and cultural accepted and needed categories.
> I think this is misconception does not work on new technologies. > Are
only the artists the creative persons ?
No
> Have you ever heard of
information aesthetics ?
yes I did - what is it ? ;)
> The internet is not a tool for this.
The creative part would be to design > such a tool. Therefore you need
artists and technicians otherwise > you can discuss it for the next ten
years.
How do you know that the Internet is not the right tool (I know it is
never synchronous etc)? but have you ever tried?
relating to Andrew Garton's theater about "public space" : we DON'T want
to "create another tool"/space, we want to use a (more or less) public space
Theater is not about creating space it is about transforming space
> If this is the opinion of all participants it is
useless to discuss > any solutions.
I can't say what the opinion of a ll participants is (again this list is
an OPEN list)
but I would rather loose no more time and energy on discussions that are
not on a level of communication that I is used between people who accept
different points of view. Ideas can not be judged.
(...rest skipped...)
Mon
-------------------alles Theater------------
Monika Wunderer wunderer@oudeis.org
http://st1hobel.phl.univie.ac.at/~wunderer/
http://www.oudeis.org
telnet://moo.hawaii.edu:9999